Build talk:Team - DoA Glaiveway
Two monks and an imbagon seems like overkill for normal mode =\--TahiriVeila 23:47, April 5, 2010 (UTC) :also why not arcane echo on Glaivers for moar glavitude!!!! ''Dictator of Undeath'' 01:00, April 6, 2010 (UTC) We've tried both with 2 monks, and with 1. Outcome was that doing it with two monks is faster. Echoglaivers are alot slower, nothing more to say there. - San. Also, if you want to be able to take on several groups in foundry at once two monks works loads better. move this to a less stupid name ^ Brandnew 11:45, April 6, 2010 (UTC) :DoA Glaiveway? [[User:Amorality|'Amor']] 12:14, April 6, 2010 (UTC) Use? Who the hell does DoA NM with consets on? Why the fuck does the imbagon have 14 spear and less leadership Might as well just go caster spike in hm if you are using cons cuz u cant do it with heroes, its faster then this shit, delete plz 12:01, April 6, 2010 (UTC) Rolain 12:09, April 6, 2010 (UTC) That was me btw. So...yeah you need 2 monks, an imbagon, AND cons to do DoA in nm? I don't think so pal =\--TahiriVeila 18:10, April 6, 2010 (UTC) Answers Sorry bout the para build, had it saved wrong. Changed it now however. Anyway, if you're after the gems, why run it in HM anyway? And the consets are only for doing it faster, it's entirely possible to run without cons. About the name, well just change it then. It's a wiki fgs. My sole purpose was to get this up here, and personally i think it works great. How long does a run take with that build anyway? Haven't tried it. I guess if it's better then i'll not bother with this build anymore. - San :Good concept for the spike, but you have no central tank. If you were to use a proper a/e one, dump the imba AND SoS for a shelter spammer. Replace one with either a Met shower ele or another glaive rit. If you have a central tank who can ball everything together, then echoing spirit rift, dumping arcane mimicry would be much more efficient. Taking essence strike or another e-management skill would be awesome since now there are no(few spirits.) Check out DoA New Way for some concept tips. Innoruuk 04:13, April 7, 2010 (UTC) you dont need a main tank for this build. for those dumbasses that are commenting before trying. dont bother. unless u know what ur talking about, u have absolutely no say. :Cool Indenting and signing your name bro.--Ikimono...And my Axe! 05:23, April 11, 2010 (UTC) ::He didn't say you "need" a main tank, he said having a main tank would allow you to ball the enemies better and thus make them easier to AoE. Necromas 05:27, April 11, 2010 (UTC) :::I actually love builds that say you don't need a proper tank. In places like stygian veil I think a central tank is dangerous. Using AOTL as a collective renewing tank is quite efficient too. You only need one tank for caster spike though for those who use the build. You lose SOME time in torc'qua, but the extra damage in fact decreases the amount of time in stygian by about 2 and 1/2 mins, foundry by 4 mins, and gloom by about a minute. Innoruuk 17:29, April 11, 2010 (UTC) I have used a variant of this build and NewWay together with 2 glaives and 1 imba humans nm and it worked completly fine for us about 1 1/2 run all together.Folepa *cough cough* PLATOON *cough cough*Angrimbor 01:53, April 14, 2010 (UTC) Why 3 painful bonds? one is enough, why spirit siphon for energy? there are no spirits to siphon when u are in there bombing use ligthbringers signet. Arcane echo the glaive b4 u go in.. One rit should echo spirit rift b4 joining the others to crack their armor and cause a huge spike.. agree that a tank is better to ball them first spirit rift them and then go in for clean up on the bombers.. :*Cough* Spirit Rift Spike is far stronger. *Cough* Launch 4 fully charged "DWG, BUH, (instensity optional if going /E), armor cracked" spirit rifts in quick succession and nothing short of an hm tuk or terra tank will be left alive. Thus the weakness of pvp minion masters if all the minions end up on one ally. Innoruuk 20:48, April 15, 2010 (UTC) Slaver's Exile Run this without the aotl(replace with tank) and imba (replace with dwg or other) and you have a slaver's speed team. I usually use... A/Mo 600 Assassin Tank prof=Assassin/Monk ShadowArts=12+1+3 ProtectionPrayers=12SpiritBondParadoxFormSpiritBondof AbsorptionHands/build Innoruuk 23:08, April 18, 2010 (UTC) HM Is this working on HM too? :/ CaRnyVaL 07:03, April 20, 2010 (UTC) :Monks are too weak to handle such a hard mode group in DoA. Cuilan 00:40, April 22, 2010 (UTC) ::What noobish guild do you run with? I use that setup with slight variation on cure hex for remove hex. Those work on hm. Check your crack dealer cause you're blowin' smoke dude. Innoruuk 01:14, April 22, 2010 (UTC) :::I feel sorry for those monks. =( Cuilan 03:59, April 22, 2010 (UTC) ::::I'll say this, they very rarely have to do anything because the spikers and tank know what they're doing. Always tight balls, 2 groups, wall block. Innoruuk 10:15, April 22, 2010 (UTC) :::::Team build doesn't have a tank. Cuilan 17:09, April 22, 2010 (UTC) ::::::Yes it does, it's called minions. Although, I run a variation without an aotl. It makes grouping much easier. Innoruuk 21:04, April 22, 2010 (UTC) :::::::If minions are the tank, does that mean everyone stands way in the back as they watch minions cast their pro self defensive skills? Cuilan 21:54, April 22, 2010 (UTC) They don't call them meat shields for nothing, and death nova bombs make quite the splash. And with the right build, they're tough to kill too. Innoruuk 22:07, April 22, 2010 (UTC) Mantra of Earth On the DWGers. Mainbar, me thinks. Discuss. Minion Excluded 21:59, April 22, 2010 (UTC) :Ok so you got:an imbagon, tanking minions, 2 monks(one of them uses mimicry to have 2 healing buffers), most teams use cons and..... you want more defense? o.O CaRnyVaL 02:25, April 23, 2010 (UTC) ::Also performs nicely as energy management in some parts too.Minion Excluded 02:36, April 23, 2010 (UTC) Oh....I was thinking about Armor of Earth xD CaRnyVaL 06:34, April 26, 2010 (UTC) time 1 hour 50 - you know people can do it in 1 hour 20 with 6 heroes? Build:Team - DoA Platoon - ''Athrun''[[User talk:Athrun Feya|''Feya]] - 14:10, April 25, 2010 (UTC) usage needs to be written up properly before you can submit... - [[User:Athrun Feya|''Athrun]][[User talk:Athrun Feya|''Feya]] - 08:54, April 27, 2010 (UTC) meta Something very close to this has become the DoA nm PuG meta requardless of votes/ranking here, since ppl are grouping/asking for it. Couple of things they will ask for...echo glaivers...(possible mantra of frost w/ sos-winter combo) and a better imba bar...since Stand your Ground doesn't stack with SY...(consider Blazing Finale + They're on Fire) which does stack. Remember this is PuG meta....simplicity is key...If one wants to check for themselves... going to DoA during Euro time is your best bet. :ive change the build to reflect this (and to make it better damage and slightly more optional on the glaivers) - [[User:Athrun Feya|''Athrun]][[User talk:Athrun Feya|''Feya]] - 11:29, April 29, 2010 (UTC) 4 PvE skills on Glaive Any/Rt title^^^^^ didnt know if it was intentional or not 01:07, April 30, 2010 (UTC) :Strong 4 pve skill bar. Take out LoD--Digital Fear 01:14, April 30, 2010 (UTC) :thats cuz someone added lgithbringers gaze, you're far better off using lightbringer sig for energy management (since you're going to be up close to enemies anyway, then spirit siphon which may or may not give return gives less than max lb if its already been used). 08:10, April 30, 2010 (UTC) Just mainbar a rit DwG bar. Running anything but a rit is pointless. Less damage.--Digital Fear 01:17, April 30, 2010 (UTC) :It's just 10 points of damage more + mesmers can cast spells faster and eles,necros have better e-management so every profession has their own pros and cons. Anyway, I think every other caster profession(mes,ele,necro) can do DwG better than rit 10 damage is not so much o.O CaRnyVaL 06:44, April 30, 2010 (UTC) ::You only need better energy management if you suck.--Digital Fear 12:48, April 30, 2010 (UTC) :::Or if you fight too much and don't take breaks CaRnyVaL 11:18, May 1, 2010 (UTC) E/Rit with Intensity might be nice.--Arrogant Bastard 20:16, April 30, 2010 (UTC) :I like this ideea :P CaRnyVaL 11:18, May 1, 2010 (UTC) i run an ele with LoD, LB gaze and AoS. with 16 in energy storage.with 3 or 4 glaivers in team no need for e-management.easy peasy.just did a run in hour and 27 mins (no mallyx) was brilliant.most important is good backliners keeping u alive and watching your imba for hexes.dont need an sos just take aotl ::It is more than just 10 damage on DwG, its +19 on Spirit Rift and +28 on Ancestor's. Higher damage +25% from Ural's hammer and main rit arcane echos for gogo more spike! I run this on a main rit sitting next to my friend's E/Rt and I'm out-damaging him by miles. Energy management isn't really a problem either for main rit, though I am hitting lb sig about on recharge (to keep energy from dipping low and becoming an issue) vs Eles barely touch the skill. I would not rate either as better than the other. The only primary I would rate lower than the others (listed) is mesmer - auspicious gets stripped too fast in most areas to be good and FC is not beneficial when the only cast time over 3/4s is Spirit Rift... I haven't tried (or even seen any one try to run) dervish DwG. I can't imagine stopping your DwG dropping to scythe out some energy is efficient though. >.< The extra AL must be nice I guess? DarkOak 10:55, May 4, 2010 (UTC) SoS Remove Smite/Remove Hex and add Spirit Siphon and Convert Hexes. They won't do any good versus lolhexstacks on the para.--Digital Fear 01:23, April 30, 2010 (UTC) Fixed the build a little. Give it a go. It should work better.--Digital Fear 17:50, April 30, 2010 (UTC) Usage Writing up now.--Digital Fear 17:54, April 30, 2010 (UTC) :K done. My English is pretty bad but the general tactics are there.--Digital Fear 18:21, April 30, 2010 (UTC) Minor Edit Edited the attribute allocation for the Para. Was set to "comm=X" and returned a "Communing" result. Changed it to say Command as it should. Morkai- 13:45, May 2, 2010 (UTC) Meta After some runs i think this is meta...no mm no weapon spells: ...and after playing the imbagon...i am pretty sure that an ias like drunken master is much better then ligtbringers...para should stay back (as far as possible). :Offset - every run I have done has taken AotL with SoS optional (but usually taken). Minions just soak up that much more damage and are more expendable against hungers, and an extra DwG is doing much more damage than an SoS. The best purpose our SoS has been is pulling... which anybody else can do with skill. DarkOak 13:05, May 4, 2010 (UTC) some minor edits i change some of those skill orders and the team overview, because it made eyes bleed.Illoyon 17:57, May 9, 2010 (UTC) HB Monk + UA Monk Add option of LB sig. Its better than auspicious. Running in to get the effect is worth it. You won't get hit unless your bad. 21:20, May 9, 2010 (UTC) : Air of Superiority works great too. I've seen monks start to use that instead of Auspicious and LB signet. AtomiK 23:23, May 18, 2010 (UTC) needs some changes the mm does not need barbs or MoP...the SoS does not really need splinter weapon an ancestors (for imbagon?)...and i dont think this bar reflect the meta.Illoyon 16:49, May 20, 2010 (UTC) :it's 100% meta.--ValeV 21:24, May 21, 2010 (UTC) still i think the mm needs improvement...maybe sth like this... because barbs and MoP sucks on a minion bomber, to counter blind (so monk dont need to waste one skill slot), cure hex to counter Soothing Images...which will be constantly reapplied, even if the para stands as far away as possible...especial against the great darkness in ravenhard (which sometimes cause the party to fail). and maybe change the sos to sth like this... splinter for just for the imba is a waste.Illoyon 14:04, May 24, 2010 (UTC) "the SoS does not really need splinter weapon an ancestors (for imbagon?)" ancestors rage: on dwgs, and its rox. splinter weapon: not really need. empowerment: really good idea. bloodsong: hmmm dunno(?) maybe this? :S your aotl build is good rly. http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100602175821/pvx/images/2/2f/Messiah_The_Legend_Userpage.png talk 10:31, June 3, 2010 (UTC) Why no DwG variant for Monks? Revolutionen 20:49, June 23, 2010 (UTC) ::My Necro takes this bar, and it works far better than MoP/Barbs ever did. r10 Sunspear + r6-8 LB, 4 & 5 keep you still very useful after the minions die, or even inbetween making more. Enfeebling Blood = less dmg to the DwG's, and quickly meets the condition for Necrosis on a new mob group. The build's Imba's bar is a bit meh. Best Imba I've run with had this bar (above). Also, I stick Empowerment on a rit DwG bar so the SoS can take offensive spirits. Bloodsong and Vampirism make two more not-players to take dmg and two more triggers for Painful Bond. I agree Empowerment does need to be on the SoS bar if there are no primary rit DwG's in the party, though I have yet to run a party without one. darkoak 12:42, July 5, 2010 (UTC) :::Imba is not even needed. --Chin pon 12:50, July 5, 2010 (UTC) :::: thats like saying u dont need a e/mo bonder for physway monks cant handle the massive preassure.-- 16:11, July 5, 2010 (UTC) ::::: Enjoy Gloom & Torcqua were done w/o para (and torcqua is prolly where it's needed the most lol). City and half veil were done with full group tough.(but could have been done without para as well) --Chin pon 16:58, July 5, 2010 (UTC) :::::: Don't you mean Gloom and Foundry. City of Torc'qua is generally the first done - as it was in your screenshot. Imba makes a drastic difference, particularly for the strain on your monks. No. Technically you don't need it. Technically you could go with only one HB monk with no res. Technically you can run this with absolutely no cons. That doesn't make it a good idea though! In running the team you can take whatever you like, but the meta ''is to take an imbagon, so the build here is unlikely to change unless you can convince the practice in DoA to change. darkoak 05:26, July 12, 2010 (UTC) :::::: firstly your screenshot is confusing the team is h/r wtf is h? and i see a p/gr last now i understand this is not english but can some one enlighten me? Prot Spirit Why do groups not like it when a monk brings Prot Spirit? 04:04, June 10, 2010 (UTC) : Because with a good imbagon it is unnecessary, and the enchantment is likely to be stripped or the target to die too quickly to make it worth your 10 energy. If you want prot spirit you may as well just bring an EMo ether idiot spammer. You also can't use enchants when fighting Mallyx because of this http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Banish_Enchantment darkoak 12:48, July 5, 2010 (UTC) Panic > SoS SoS has laughable damage and equally pathetic crowd control. I've been running a panic mesmer and had tremendous success. I'll post the bar and we can discuss possibly removing the terribly overused and shitty SoS build. prof=Me/Any Domination=12+1+2 Fast=10+1 Inspiration=8PanicSignetof PainMistrustSignetof Eartham unstoppable!"Mimicry/build Not only does this provide a designated puller who can properly group enemies for successful (pug) spikes. It also renders the most dangerous parts of DoA quite harmless. It prevents life steal spikes from hungers, and earth/fire spikes from titans and dryders. Mistrust provides almost 200 AoE damage if put on a hunger at low health casting GB, Or can easily be spammed on water/titans/dryders etc. It provides great defense, a great puller/tank, and some decent fucking damage. Mimicry is of course used to grab UA. Which is fantastic if you have some fail fags in your group. The energy is easy to manage as well. As for your comment about prot spirit. With panic it just isn't necessary. Even if someone miraculously is spiked by 20 things at once, they're back up with full health/energy in a few moments. Discuss my leet bar plz 04:12, June 10, 2010 (UTC) :I wouldn't call the damage of an SoS bar with painful bond and ARage laughable. The healths of spirits are also factored in the DWGs' BuH iirc. But regarding your bar, I notice you don't bring convert hexes, meaning your team can wtfexplode when the para gets stacked with anti-shout + other hexes. Since you're using panic why not wastrel's worry which can easily replace both unnatural sig and cry of pain freeing up a pve slot (for EBSoH maybe?). --Suxon my Kurdick 07:41, June 10, 2010 (UTC) :: Have you ever done DoA glaiveway? Any half competent paragon knows to avoid necros if possible and monks are intelligent enough to remove hexes. Did I also forget to mention the fact that panic interupts EVERYTHING, and is also easily maintainable with cons? Also, spirits rarely attack the same target making their pressure pathetic. AR? I could have sworn that the glaivers had that skill? Seriously, mistrust does way more then ancestor's, has less of a recharge, doesn't require someone to be standing next to the enemy, has a wider AoE and prevents dangerous spells from even going off. If you can find some epic reasoning that blows my logic out of the water I'll uninstall. Srsly. If you're really that doubtful I'll come do a run with you and show you how fucking epic this build really is. Docta Jenkins 20:02, June 10, 2010 (UTC) :::Well I'm sorry I don't always get competent paragons and monks like you, I've been in more groups where the para pings a hex stack multiple times than not. I never said your build was better or worse than the SoS build so I don't know what epic reasoning you want me to asspull. When you have panic, you can tab cast some wastrel's worries on a mob group and since they're getting !!!!ed by panic, then wastrel's condition can be met no? Degen sucks, I'd find something else instead of CoP. --Suxon my Kurdick 06:20, June 15, 2010 (UTC) ::::They almost always get atleast one skill off before they die. They just don't blow your team up with skill spam. Glaive are there for damage, the panic is just minor tanking/pulling and some utility. They focus on killing things glaive have a harder time on, such as water tormentors that have snare. Docta Jenkins 15:40, June 15, 2010 (UTC) -Edit- Ebsoh is overkill and hardly would matter in the grand scheme of things. Wastrels worry? I don't like waiting 3 seconds for damage that might not happen. Unnatural signet costs no energy and does more AoE damage then cry of pain. Cry of pain is in the build mainly for the interupt and degen. Docta Jenkins 20:05, June 10, 2010 (UTC) :::Hmm, instead of totally removing the SoS from the template, maybe the SoS bar and usage should have been left under variations in case anyone still wants to use it? Dragonlord Tony 07:16, June 13, 2010 (UTC) a rit mm bomber with empowerment and explosive growth would be way better than the nec minion bomber?? ((User : Crag)) hybrid prof=Rt/N Spawning=11+1+1 Channeling=10+1 Death=10of SpiritsGiftGrowthSpiritsSoulBone MinionsNovaof Creation/build just an idea, still untested. mainly helps with condition removal, healing, and applies constant blind to attackers. also deals damage however. lb sig/ whatever energy management you want. spirits are not meant to tank, they are just food for rupture soul. (although they can tank due to higher spawning power) targets provided in the form of minions. the only downsides here being: a. long cast on summon minions and high energy cost. long cast on death nova. (actually not such a big problem since this is mostly all you will be casting) b. long charge on SG+EG enchants... don't get chilblains by despair titans :D c. rez as last resort using scrolls. (if your monks utterly suck) d. hex removal must be slotted on the panic mez. e. dependant on echantments, although there is a huge overlap with cons and 20% ench mod (36 sec charge, 72 sec duration), allowing for management of this. it reduces effectiveness VS titans in GoA. however, boon of creation can be replaced by spirit siphon, lb sig or your choice of e-management. Gesun Dheit 07:37, June 16, 2010 (UTC) Gesun Dheit 15:12, June 15, 2010 (UTC) Gesun Dheit 15:28, June 15, 2010 (UTC) (5 edits, geez sorry haha) ALSO: would like to mention, the glaivers need to run separate builds. couple things: a. LoD is a waste if you ask me. the minions are pathetically easy to deal with. and it has a long charge. and it only really works against minions. b. one should carry splinter for para. c. if no other damage spells, then that slot should be reserved for some sort of defensive skill. some form of damage reduction, self-heal, etc.. d. all you time is taken up anyways just casting arcane echo, DWG, AR, and spirit rift. that's it for now.. Gesun Dheit 17:00, June 15, 2010 (UTC) SC ok so here is this friend that says this is a SC but IT ISN'T right? >{CaRnyVaL}™ 15:18, June 15, 2010 (UTC) :It really really isn't. [[User:Andy|'A']][[User Talk:Andy|'ndy']] 12:10, June 19, 2010 (UTC) ::This is the caster-equivalent to UW Physway.Minion 21:53, June 26, 2010 (UTC) dwg ele... ...moar dmg!Illoyon 14:38, June 22, 2010 (UTC) Stabward and melee makes inferno go swooosh screw glyph and aura 11:15, June 24, 2010 (UTC) Monks as DWG I just used this, it's perfect. --ValeV 21:35, June 26, 2010 (UTC) I added mo/rt build. If you dont like it, post some arguments. Thx.--ValeV 19:52, June 28, 2010 (UTC) Warriors as DWG? Are there any builds out there that allow warriors to play DWG? 14:32, June 30, 2010 (UTC) :I allready saw War playing as dwg, but caster are superior to them. Idk, use sweets and that stuff for more energy blabla. Otherwise, just dont.--ValeV 13:20, July 1, 2010 (UTC) 2 emos they could replace the two monks and imba y/n?--[[User:Relyk|'Relyk']] talk 22:26, July 2, 2010 (UTC) : Your right two emo bonders could replace the monks and the imba's position and open a slot for anothe gdw,a tank...etc but yeah you are right two e/mo would be best.--Jpuzimaki13 15:19, July 3, 2010 (UTC) ::Yeah, how bout that? Nothing on the main page about it. Cuilan 02:27, July 11, 2010 (UTC) EBSOH just thinking why dont one of the DWG take Ebon battle standard of honor instead of by urals hammer for a +10^ damage for entire party to lash out.--Jpuzimaki13 15:23, July 3, 2010 (UTC) :it was changed to only effect attack damage. If I'm not mistaken.--Ikimono...And my Axe! 23:43, July 5, 2010 (UTC) times i just did a 1.38 without 1 monk, sos and cons on last level with a pug Recall on sin? A lot of sins run Dark Escape for pulling. Can you tell me, why there is Recall in main bar? How to use it?--ValeV 15:00, July 6, 2010 (UTC) Panic mesmer in normal mode I'd replace Mistrust with Cry of Frustration and then remove the self defensive junk. Thoughts? Cuilan 02:26, July 11, 2010 (UTC) :Afaik, pugs don't even use a panic. Might as well remove it or put a note about HM use or something. Life Guardian 02:45, July 11, 2010 (UTC) ::I've been in pugs as Panic, so I can't say I agree. Cuilan 02:47, July 11, 2010 (UTC) :::Meh, i never paid too much attention anyways. Dropped in to GoA a couple of times and never saw a panic lfg. Life Guardian 02:49, July 11, 2010 (UTC) ::::I've seen a couple in doa today so its common enough--[[User:Relyk|'Relyk']] talk 05:33, July 12, 2010 (UTC) ::::: Mistrust does 200+ AoE if you're not autistic. CoP is pretty bad considering everything should be getting interupted from Panic :\ 07:30, July 19, 2010 (UTC) Imbagon Bar prof=P/W Leadership=12+1+3 Command=12+1 Spear=3Finaleon FireTouch This!Your Ground!"Yourselves!"Nothing to Fear!"AngerSignet/build I find this bar makes the Imbagon's job very easy. Spear attacks are not needed in the runs; even with spear mastery at 12, the damage is negligible. With a leadership of 17 (with the use of cons), I can spam SY after 3 hits. With a kurzick rank of 6 (5 sec SY), this ensures the team is never without SY. What do you guys think? --Slithersly 19:20, July 11, 2010 (UTC) :Besides the attribute change, SYG is pointless with SY and CTT doesnt last long enough to make a difference. Life Guardian 21:53, July 11, 2010 (UTC) ::Do you have any suggestions?-- 23:15, July 11, 2010 (UTC) :::technobabble--[[User:Relyk|'Relyk']] talk 05:31, July 12, 2010 (UTC) ::::I'd suggest "We Shall Return!", particularly for PuGs. I think the reasoning is pretty self explanatory. >.> darkoak 05:31, July 12, 2010 (UTC) :::::Way to go with 17 leadership is great. I just tested it. but Blazing Finale & "They,re on Fire" are usless. I prefer "We Shall Return" & "Make Your Time!" to counter blind and always start battle with SY. Last time I changed CTT to Fall Back. Revert Why was this deleted? Zedone2 06:40, July 12, 2010 (UTC) :Vandal. 07:05, July 12, 2010 (UTC) ::Thought so. Zedone2 07:06, July 12, 2010 (UTC) omg vandals... Convert hexes? There is no way you will survive in gloom without convert. :Yep, maybe the SoS build with convert hexes should also be present in this build, at least as a variant, 'cause it's more commonly used by PUGs than the AotL necro.--[[User:AriaFrost|'Aria Frost']] ''talk'' 12:23, July 16, 2010 (UTC) :Long sig code is long, panic prevents most hex rape and DwG's can bring remove hex or some shit. 07:31, July 19, 2010 (UTC) what a mess holy cow, who permitted that royal mess with all the alt builds. decided to post this because of this giant mess. DoA Frostway. putting enchants on DWGS is just a bad idea. for the most part, they are useless, if not hurtful.. if you wanna use alt classes, at least DONT use enchants FFS. use EBSoW, splinter, whatever else, BUT enchants. Gesun Dheit 07:42, July 18, 2010 (UTC) :Just to make sure you know Nearly all Enchants for any of thes builds recharge less then 15seconds so there is no worry about them being removed. Secondly Your Build Uses Nearly the same amount of enchants, Lastly These Builds Are for every Proffession To dwg (except warrior and paragon) Yours only allows rits or mesmers Hard enough as is it to find an sos for dwg.--Jpuzimaki13 01:46, July 19, 2010 (UTC) ::You missed my point. The problem is, people pick up these builds and start loading even more enchants on their bars. in the case of margonites, especially in city, a few desecrate enchants can do some serious damage if SY is not up. Secondly, it's not my build, it's a community build. I just wrote it up and changed alot of the skills on those bars. Thirdly, it does not use the same amount of enchants.. if you have 4 dwg with 3 enchants each. thats a crapload of enchants, plus those on monks. patient spirit is in the build for a reason, to bait enchant removal. so is spotless mind. when used properly they are very effective (read the writeup). Last of all, it isn't hard to find 3 rits. and why are you taking this personally. it's just a build. Gesun Dheit 06:52, July 19, 2010 (UTC) ::: Desecrate is armor ignoring you scrub, meaning SY! won't save your ass. Second off City is the easiest area to do. Third, you're bad. 07:33, July 19, 2010 (UTC) ::::True, desecrate is, didn't even think about that. which would explain the huge spikes i've seen on parties with xxx amount of enchants loaded up on them. Gesun Dheit 07:41, July 19, 2010 (UTC) ::::: Enchantments? Loaded up? Where. The most enchanted bar on there is the Dervish variation of the DwG bar. Which, unfortunately for them, short enchantments are all they have to bring from their primary class that will really be useful in any obscure way - particularly with your elite slot definitively taken. Even their amazing stances are best only when enchanted. After that? Your monks are kinna enchanted, or use some of the shortest duration enchantments in the game on your team mates, but this still is very far from an issue if you use proper kiting technique. Plus HB & UA are far too meta to consider not bringing and you are contributing far more to the party with significantly increased healing than you would be saving a little bit of damage a couple times per run from having your two enchantments desecrated. I'll be quite happy to point out here that your frostway build uses the exact same enchantments on the monks, and even an extra one for hex removal, so clearly that should not be your enchanted issue. Changing a lot of skills on a "community build" and reposting it does kindof rather make it yours. Because its your little variation, or your guild's, or your group's, etc. Other enchantments? Well, for the ritualist bar channeling is really uncommon, and was probably changed from Mantra of Earth to Channeling by some person not considering what other people really use. Arcane Echo lasts approximately .75 seconds. Necro, Monk, and Ranger DwG bars carry exactly 0 enchantments. Panic, AotL, and apparently SoS (I am laughing its not on the main page) are all optional, and of them only AotL has enchantments at all. He's now the least popular hands down of the three. That leaves Ele DwG's as an avoidable problem then...? For bringing an enchantment or two that will help in the long term of the full run? darkoak 15:39, July 19, 2010 (UTC) ::::::I hate to repeat myself, but once again the point is not taken. putting enchants on those bars makes people believe that it's ok to load up on enchants when in fact it isn't. it heals the enemies, gives them energy and triggers desecrate, etc.. simply put. they are pointless. you shouldn't need any enchants at all. there are much better skills you could bring. i don't know of a single doa build in history that has been heavy on enchants. there are good reason for that. chilblains in foundry is another good one. it's the reason rits + paras do so well in doa. also, ua, hb, spotless and patient do not constitute 'a lot' of enchants. thats only 4. and they are all used for very good reason, unlike the alt dwg bars which just seem to attempt to fill the last slot with a profession skill without very much though at all. patient for example is abait skill to draw enchant removal skills. if you know what that means. Gesun Dheit 02:08, July 20, 2010 (UTC) ::::::: just to make sure you i know this have you ever done a glaive way run? If so then you can Understand that the last 2 optional skills for the any builds are completly optional you can take anything that can help. #1 Reason this build so popular is cause you can find a team easily its hard enough to find sos rits for doa. Enchants are hardly the worry there are only 9 enchanct removers in entire doa. majority of them die before they get the chance to use them. if despair titan by some chance gets it off on you only 1 heal party will bring the party back up to health.--Jpuzimaki13 02:45, July 20, 2010 (UTC) ::::::::considering i posted the frostway build and have commented here, i think i've done a glaive run. i understand they are optional. that doesnt mean they should be used as enchants... since when does optional imply enchantments? a note should be made, plain and simple. Additionally, a comment that melee classes (D,W,P,A) as DWG should be limited to 2 per team. maximum 3. it really slows down the run and accounts for alot of fail, which you dont really want in a pug because people get annoyed quickly. the reason for this is lower energy regen and lack of energy management options to fix this. R/E/N are all fine because they all have inherent energy management. Me/Rt is also fine. Mo/Rt is also kind of a poor choice (no e-mng options, more regen, but less armor than melee). having 4 melee or even 3 on one team is a sure path to almost predictable failure or a 2+ hour run. this is simply not pug friendly. i'm not saying remove the builds. I'm saying, fix the builds and make the appropriate comments. because I'm sure as hell not going to do it for you. whoever is responsible for this mess should fix it. Gesun Dheit 03:03, July 20, 2010 (UTC) ::::::::: First off There is no warrior nor paragon build for dwg, secondly Dervish And assassin are great for dwg they have same pip regen andacan take a channeling staff and be nearly the same e as a cast proffession, dervs also gain energy when enchantments end. and have, sins can use skills to reduce dmg or blind nearby foes like smoke powder and unseen fury. enchantments arnt the only skill sins and dervs have. optional mean anything if they decide to take it let not imply enchantments nothing horrible will come from having enchants on dwg. since they are spammable and monks have 4 enchants on there build together. do you understand the main part of pug friendly is. (answer: you can form a team quickly and reach desired effect efectivly).-- 04:16, July 20, 2010 (UTC) :::::::::: i suppose D/Rt and A/Rt can achieve the same energy if you load them with radiant instead of survivor. however, a staff wont make a difference while holding a bundle, but that doesnt matter because of previous point. enchantments should really not be ending on you. i see alot of W/Rt dwgs tho. tbh, didnt make sure which exact classes were there, just looked at them in general. still needs to be fixed, too many people getting dumb ideas from this. Gesun Dheit 04:47, July 20, 2010 (UTC) ::::::::::: yes there are warrior and paragon dwg trying to join groups tbut you still have the choice to accept them or not if you do u know your team is going to fail either way. putting down the massive amount of possible optionals that can help player make runs faster or boost teams damage we cant fit all that into just this artical. best to let the player decide and when they join group they tell him what to pick since nearly anything can go for optionsals. enchantments where never the issue to begin with monks rely on thos enchantments and the rest of the team depends on them as well. enchantments that are cast on dervs like patient spirit,seed of life etc is what i am refering too they always end. --Jpuzimaki13 05:11, July 20, 2010 (UTC) (indent reset) Going to second what Jpuzimakil said; there are through the whole run limited mobs that can remove enchantments, which tend to die before they use them even a first time (forget recharging for a second use), and are easily healed over. Now, if you want to say that the build as presented on the page no longer reflects the meta team composition nor the individual builds used... I'll totally agree with you. Its a horrible bunch of crap that seems to have been dictated by what ever idiot has hit the edit button most and not what is actually run - monk builds excluded, since there's not a lot of variation there in any area. I disagree with picking at enchantments particularly or as the root of this problem, that's just general disorganization of a build that has caught like wildfire. But why has it caught like wildfire? Because literally any class can and will find a place in a party with this build. Yes, assholes can discriminate class for the "best" run. But I doubt that any variation on this is capable of becoming more popular unless it can also incorporate everyone. And for the record, Dervishes and Assassins are just as good as any other caster that is not a Ritualist because they both have 4 pips of regen just like the other casting classes. The regen is much more important than the five energy they miss out on. Warriors are unideal for it, yes, but they do complete runs, and they do keep up with casters, and they do offer a lot more survivability than most of the other classes. Yea, that's right, they die less so you spend less time near-wiping and raising. No, I don't like warriors running DwG in my DwG groups, but I don't refuse to monk and kick them/leave. I shrug and let it go because its just a game and making a deal of it would kill the fun for everybody in the group. You can and I have completed runs with 2 warriors in the party or three dervishes... and in fact no primary ritualists in the party aside from the SoS. And still on the normal 3-4 consets with no downtime from them. This general group composition already minimizes risk of failure with two monks, an imbagon, a nice ass title benefit, consets and an SoS that generally is more support than anything else, there's no need to nitpick which primary professions run the damage to "reduce" failure risk farther. Unless you just suck that bad. Yup, the build needs fixed. But if you actually run this you're equally qualified to hit the edit button as the rest of us. Instead of whining about a mess and being generally rude. I did hit the edit button earlier today, its not hard. darkoak 06:40, July 20, 2010 (UTC) :honestly, the build in it's current form does not reflect what the OP intended. also, i wouldn't want to attempt this in HM. the article no longer describes what it was intended to. aptly renamed, it should be "Build:Team - DoA NM Randomclass" because that is what it reflects. If it was up to me i woul dhave created a separate article with an SoS and whatever people run now instead of trashing this one, which according to the ratings it's gotten seems to work just fine as it was. Gesun Dheit 07:36, July 20, 2010 (UTC) ::I guess the bigger issue with too many non-rit without mantra of earth is this. there are some major fail points for inexperienced pugs. the earth tormentors right after darknesses in veil for example. no praimary rits = lots of fail there. also, foundry = eruption, churning earth, shockwave, earthwuake, aftershock.. all from rage titans, which, if the imba doesnt get blind removed from eruption is a fail point, and also dust cloak from dementia titans will blind and they follow up with some major AoE damage. major fail point again. need mantra for those things, or a fast condition removal. dismiss condition simply doesnt cut it, need mend body and soul in that case, and still.. you dont want to leave those kind of fail points around, because even though you can minimize how frequently they occur, its still a major pain in the ass, especially with random pugs. Gesun Dheit 07:54, July 20, 2010 (UTC) ::: You dont get it they die before they git off skills like that. imbagon shouldnt be in the middle of the groups to get blinded from dust cloak and other skils. Yes this build need to be fixed and specified I would change it but i would pratically change the entire build. if you had the rt/me or me/rt take mantra yes that will reduce the damage on certain attacks but that really wont prevent the monks from wiping out on you. and if you say that the imbagon should keep them alive the why cant he keep the entire party alive with his shouts. i agree this build needs to be re-edited to get fixed into proper in-game use. although sos is much preferred for the team i find it best when my guild does it we take one of our vault glaive builds. runs get done less then and hours and 15minutes.--Jpuzimaki13 15:09, July 20, 2010 (UTC) :::: This section is just a huge wall of text going around in cirles ><--Jpuzimaki13 15:09, July 20, 2010 (UTC) :::::I think i get it, and they don't die before they get off any skills. that statement is just flat out false. imbagon shouldnt be, wouldnt be, neednt be, BUT WAS. so there. dont treat the imba like he is superman. the monks simply will not wipe out on you with enough hex and condition removal to keep the imba clean. if you do then you relaly suck as monk because 90% of the time you are the last target on the list, 10% of the time you are the 2nd last. and no, no matter what you say, the imbagon cannot do it alone. there are so many ways in which that is a single point of failure. SINGLE POINT OF FAILURE. SINGLE>..POIN.. i give up... this build doesnt need to be re-edited, it should not have been edited in the first place. hour and fifteen minutes. yea, with those builds, not even remotely likely. hour and 15 with a frostway, yea, thats believable. ive done 1 hour 20 in a pug, so yea.. but definately not with a SoS.. gloom/city without ST in HM = hardcore fail unless you pull 1 mob at a time which takes twice as long at least. anyways i'm done. try HM sometime. Gesun Dheit 00:10, July 21, 2010 (UTC) yet another aotl prof=Rt/N spawning=12+1+1 death=12 restoration=3+1of SuperioritySignetGrowthUral's Hammer!"of the LichNovaExplosionWas Li Ming/build probably not optimal. just theorizing. you know, the only problem i have with aotl, limited effectiveness in veil (banishing strike) and foundry (titans = no corpses). Gesun Dheit 08:07, July 19, 2010 (UTC) : I always wanted a team to take icy vains instead of aotl, putrid bile instead of explosion, that usually did a ton of aoe dmg.--Jpuzimaki13 05:15, July 20, 2010 (UTC) ::i like it cuz usually: aotl = leeching, but with Explosive Growth ownz hard. "limited effectiveness in veil" maybe .. but its usable at the stygian lords part. 14:35, July 21, 2010 (UTC) Black Pushover of Arrgh This is incorrect. The animator had a heart attack 23:30, July 22, 2010 (UTC) Small Change to the UA Take spotless mind instead of cure hex, and just maintain on the imba? I've found it takes a lot of pressure off both monks. --Coveredinglitter 10:03, July 23, 2010 (UTC) prof=Mo/? hea=12 pro=3 div=12KissLightMindConditionof LifeSignetPartyAura/build :it works fine most of the time. but you need 2 other hex removals, cure hex on HB and convert on sos/panic, or another hex removal on UA, and MBaS on sos. you also need patient spirit then, to place on dwgs and bait enchant removals. otherwise they will strip PS off ima, UA+HB off the monks. Gesun Dheit 16:48, July 23, 2010 (UTC) ::also, i don't know why you would put ethereal light on the UA. it is way too interruptible. better choices are patient spirit or words of comfort. Gesun Dheit 17:27, July 23, 2010 (UTC) I just copied the build from the PvX page and swapped the one skill :P I would normally use PS. W/Rt bar OQgiExiMRs5N54QKmKexxMNYBA Max Armor(80+20/piece): +1 str helm +50 HP rune 4 * rune of attenument Without weapons/offhands/cons/sweets you got 36 energy. R7 LB and R7 Delver would be good. - any staff variant: +15 energy, +30hp(wrapping),+20% HSR, +5energy^50%hp - Channeling staff variant: +10 energy, 20/40, +30hp or +1 channeling(20%) - channeling set variant: +12 energy, 40/40 any staff Variant: 1| Without using cons/sweets/Lightbringer signet/spirit siphon you can cast: DWG 11 times rage 8 times BuH 2 times in one row. Channeling staff variant: 1| Without using cons/sweets/Lightbringer signet/spirit siphon you can cast: DWG 10 times rage 5 times BuH 2 times in one row <47sec. channeling set variant: 1| Without using cons/sweets/Lightbringer signet/spirit siphon you can cast: With active signet of satima you will have 827hp(1000hp+++ with sweets/cons), best choice for a puller. Waiting for cultured comments, ideas, feedbacks. Who is not able to answer normally that spare me, thx. prof=W/Rt str=12+1 cha=12SignetWas GlaiveRageof DeldrimorRiftUral's Hammer!"Am Unstoppable!"of Stamina/build : warriors good to be a puller, but take iau instead of spirit siphon (cuz cripl and kd). you inspired me to try this set-up with my wari :P 06:56, August 3, 2010 (UTC) :: 4 Pve skills. Maybe take iau instead of LoD? Lod Has a slower recharge. Lower delver enough. prof=W/Rt str=12+1 cha=12Was GlaiveRageRiftUral's Hammer!"Am Unstoppable!"SignetSiphonof Stamina/build ohhh ... true. yes, maybe instead of LoD. by the way, its an effective build. 19:50, August 3, 2010 (UTC) :Thx the cooperation :). I test other weapons and I will build in the way. Panic Stop fucking with it. Pugs can't interupt worth shit let alone interupt spells to manage their own energy. Leech is horrible, wastrel's is too conditional and has less damage, We shall return is utterly -meh- Having UA(mimicry) on hand is far more useful. 09:12, August 5, 2010 (UTC) :So, could Panic be something like this?prof=Mesmer/Elementalist FastCasting=10+1 DominationMagic=11+1+3 InspirationMagic=6+1 EarthMagic=8Panicof PainMistrustSignetAm Unstoppable!"of EarthStrikerMimicry/build or this oneprof=Mesmer/ FastCasting=12+1 DominationMagic=12+1+3Panicof PainMistrustOptionalPostureSignetAm Unstoppable!"Mimicry/build with as the possible options.--[[User:AriaFrost|'Aria Frost']] ''talk'' 14:45, August 5, 2010 (UTC) :: Yeah, Unnatural signet isn't needed at all. 02:06, August 7, 2010 (UTC) GWK Support prof=rt/me Inspiration=12 Channeling=12+1+3Ural's Hammer!"Was KuurongMimicryRageof DeldrimorSignetSiphonof Earth/build * arcane mimicry -> copy dwg from an ally * gwk up -> run in * dropp gwk -> spam dwg, ancestors rage, lod * energy managment: lb signet, spirit siphon (need it, because gwk and mimicry costs 15e) leave comments 11:38, August 5, 2010 (UTC) :: I like the idea, I wouldn't recommend it for pugs though. 02:07, August 7, 2010 (UTC) is there a build for para as dwg?? glaive para why is there a glaive para in main team? they are just not good at spamming glaive...so para in main team seems stupid.Illoyon 22:02, September 18, 2010 (UTC) Nobody uses them anyway, all paras are running imba for the high demand Ele/rit that bar needs a change, Aura of Resto is garbage with a skill that costs 5 energy. * / prof=e/rt Energy=10+1+1 Earth=8 Channeling=12Was GlaiveRiftRageof DeldrimorGazeSignetAgainst Meleeof Stability/build maybe something like that? *Ward against melee helps out with most of the map. The Greater Darkness' last phase is particularly easy with ward up. As well as foundry in any part where the dervish titans are running around in massive amounts *Ward of Stability is most noticeable in foundry. It prevents the constant knockdowns from churning earth, earthquake, and meteor making it easier to heal and keep doing damage *DwG, spirit rift, ancestor's rage, Light Bringer's Gaze, and light of deldrimor are all for damage *Lightbringer signet keeps your energy up Maximillian.greil 22:41, Wrong tag This team build was listed beneath hero teams, this is not a hero team build.